My Small collection of SS Stuff

Stormtrooper
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My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Stormtrooper » Sun May 14, 2017 1:44 am

This is all of the SS stuff that I have been able to collect thus far. Enjoy! Butch
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Tailgunnerdownunder
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Tailgunnerdownunder » Sun May 14, 2017 10:28 am

Thanks for posting Butch :thumbsup: nice little group you have so far. Any background info on each item you might want to post individually? Regards Mark.

PHILBROWN
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby PHILBROWN » Mon May 15, 2017 11:18 am

sadly you need to return the fake ss badge with runes and also the fork mate,sorry

Stormtrooper
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Stormtrooper » Mon May 15, 2017 3:52 pm

I had my doubts about the fork but the tinnie is news to me. Butch

Stormtrooper
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Stormtrooper » Mon May 15, 2017 4:03 pm

The Bullet is a rare one. I got it from a man that I worked with who's Dad was a Medic who took part in D-Day and North Africa. The Projectile is wood. It used to be coated with a Blue coating that he said was to promote infection. It had to be discharged at close range and could not be detected by an X-Ray. Tommy said that his Dad got quite a few of these off of the SS guys. Tommy said that his Dad said the first thing he did when he got to Omaha Beach was to throw his Medic Helmet away! He said that they were Bullet magnets. He replaced it with one he got from a pile that was one the Beach. Butch

Christopher Ailsby
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Christopher Ailsby » Mon May 15, 2017 5:57 pm

Dear Butch your comment, "The Projectile is wood. It used to be coated with a Blue coating that he said was to promote infection. " The wooden headed bullets were used in training. The colour, I am not sure of, but in Britain they were red. When fired from an automatic weapon with a guard on the mussel, they broke up. The pressure that was required for operation the weapon was created by the wooden head of the bullet. These are quite hard to find.

Christopher

PHILBROWN
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby PHILBROWN » Mon May 15, 2017 6:41 pm

Stormtrooper wrote:I had my doubts about the fork but the tinnie is news to me. Butch



not the tinnie, the ss badge butch

Stormtrooper
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Stormtrooper » Tue May 16, 2017 1:58 am

Yes, you are absolutely right. The night I took these pictures I was in a hurry as it was getting Late. I forgot to take it out of the mount. The pin was a gift from a well meaning but uninformed friend. That is why I haven't thrown in in the "uh-oh" Box. As far as the fork, I just liked it so I bought it. well below Ss market value. Sorry about that. Haste does make waste. Butch

Tailgunnerdownunder
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Tailgunnerdownunder » Tue May 16, 2017 4:52 am

Love the background story on the wooden bullets :thumbsup: just when you think you have heard it all, there is more to learn. Regards Mark.

Stormtrooper
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Stormtrooper » Tue May 16, 2017 10:15 pm

Well Christopher, This Bullet was taken from a SS prisoner that also had regular rifle rounds. Tommy's Dad said that a few of the SS combat guys had the regular rifle round and they also had a couple of stripper clips with the Blue tipped wooden ones. When they were questioned about it is when tommy's Dad said that one of the prisoners told him what I just typed. I can't think of another reason why they would have both kinds in combat. Tommy's dad also said that the German SS soldier spoke better English than he did. He was scared to Death that they were going to Kill him. I know that we are from the South but...C'mon! I say that if it's BS The SS guy said it. BTW Tommy still has his Dad's last Medic's Helmet that he was issued. It's Really nice! Butch

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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Dave_Holden » Wed May 17, 2017 5:25 am

Very interestring Butch - its great to hear from people who have first hand accounts, tell us more if you can :thumbsup:

Christopher Ailsby
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Christopher Ailsby » Wed May 17, 2017 12:33 pm

Dear Butch, it is quite possible that the bullet was taken as said. There were training excersises going on in Normandy were such were being used. Just a general input to these,

Platzpatronen cartridges are described in the German Army Handbook, (Der Diesnt Unterricht im Heer) which states "use of these rounds in maneuvers at ranges of less than 50 meters is strongly forbidden, as misfortunes might occur." The 7.92 mm version, intended for use in Mauser rifles and MG34 and 42 machine-guns does feature a purple projectile, made of hollow wood. These were simply intended and designed to facilitate chambering of those blank rounds into various weapons easier and less-likely to jam or mis-feed. There was no plan or intent for them to be used as weapons, which would violate the Geneva or Hague rules of land warfare.

Tailgunnerdownunder
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Tailgunnerdownunder » Wed May 17, 2017 1:30 pm

Christopher Ailsby wrote:Dear Butch, it is quite possible that the bullet was taken as said. There were training excersises going on in Normandy were such were being used. Just a general input to these,

Platzpatronen cartridges are described in the German Army Handbook, (Der Diesnt Unterricht im Heer) which states "use of these rounds in maneuvers at ranges of less than 50 meters is strongly forbidden, as misfortunes might occur." The 7.92 mm version, intended for use in Mauser rifles and MG34 and 42 machine-guns does feature a purple projectile, made of hollow wood. These were simply intended and designed to facilitate chambering of those blank rounds into various weapons easier and less-likely to jam or mis-feed. There was no plan or intent for them to be used as weapons, which would violate the Geneva or Hague rules of land warfare.

What a great thread this has developed into. I am fascinated by that reference material you have provided Chris. I have read a lot of books and this is the first time I have heard about the use of wooden bullets in training etc. I wish this subject was a thread by itself so it won't get lost for others to read. I'm sure I wouldn't be the only one who has found this thread to be so "enlightening". Thank you to you both Butch and Chris great work :thumbsup:

Regards Mark.

Stormtrooper
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Stormtrooper » Thu May 18, 2017 4:01 am

Everyone knows how dedicated the Germans were to the Geneva agreement. :lol: Butch

Ian Hulley
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Ian Hulley » Thu Nov 02, 2017 1:35 pm

Sadly the runes and rank tab are both fake and the machine-embroidered sleeve eagle is a 'contentious' style.

Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier.

Ian.

Stormtrooper
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Stormtrooper » Thu Nov 23, 2017 6:45 pm

Ian Hulley wrote:Sadly the runes and rank tab are both fake and the machine-embroidered sleeve eagle is a 'contentious' style.

Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier.

Ian.

Are you talking about the "Small" size pips on the Rank Tab or what? Butch

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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Ian Hulley » Thu Nov 23, 2017 10:22 pm

Stormtrooper wrote: Are you talking about the "Small" size pips on the Rank Tab or what? Butch


Yes, please show clearer shots of them, front and back. :thumbsup:

Ian

Stormtrooper
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Stormtrooper » Sat Dec 09, 2017 8:52 pm

No, I will not. You can Authenticate them yourself, if you have a copy of Angola's SS cloth Book. They are in there,yep they are. And the Eagle you are worried about came from Bob Hirtz.I have not known anyone with a Better reputation that my Friend Bob.I have had questions for you in the past and I thank you for your help on these matters. But I didn't ask for these to be authenticated. Butch

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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Ian Hulley » Thu Dec 21, 2017 9:21 am

Stormtrooper wrote: No, I will not. You can Authenticate them yourself, if you have a copy of Angola's SS cloth Book. They are in there,yep they are.


They are paired with a fake which brings them into question. I don't need to authenticate them for myself, I was trying to help you.

Stormtrooper wrote: And the Eagle you are worried about came from Bob Hirtz.I have not known anyone with a Better reputation that my Friend Bob.


Mr Hritz is a very experienced, advanced collector and I'm sure he would be the first to admit that none of us know everything and we've all been caught out. The eagle in question is (or was) sold en-masse by Helmut Weitze and many people feel them to be wrong ... as I said 'contentious'.

Stormtrooper wrote: But I didn't ask for these to be authenticated. Butch


You are totally correct, I shalln't authenticate your items again and I apologise if you feel I have trashed your collection. The intention was only to help, as before.

Ian.

The Devils Bank
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby The Devils Bank » Thu Dec 21, 2017 4:38 pm

Stormtrooper wrote:No, I will not. You can Authenticate them yourself, if you have a copy of Angola's SS cloth Book. They are in there,yep they are. And the Eagle you are worried about came from Bob Hirtz.I have not known anyone with a Better reputation that my Friend Bob.I have had questions for you in the past and I thank you for your help on these matters. But I didn't ask for these to be authenticated. Butch


Hi Butch, could you please (on my behalf) take some more pictures of the SS Tab for the forum?

So we can learn about the quality of these SS collar patches, it would be very helpful if we could see these with great pictures.

I haven't a clue about SS insignia, and would love to learn more :thumbsup:

What SS rank is the two pips? :oops:

Stormtrooper
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Stormtrooper » Tue Dec 26, 2017 11:51 pm

On that account, I'll be Happy to. If you would, Give until this weekend 12/30/17. I have some new stuff to add to another Picture. I will take some shots of the Tabs Front and Rear. Thanks and all the Best, Butch

Andyb
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Andyb » Wed Dec 27, 2017 9:18 am

Hello Butch ,
this is an amazing thread and please note I have been on this forum from day one , even the previous forum before this and I can tell you that the members on here are not tryin to trash your collection , this is not acceptable on here, it is not that type of forum, unlike other forums , they are only trying to help you with their vast amounts of knowledge.

I do not know anything about SS items so I cannot comment but the please listen to them. This whole forum was started because I got stung , ripped off etc by a dealer who I eventually took to court and got my money back , and people on the forum witnessed this and helped and didn't like the fact that this had happened in an open forum and the dealer was blatantly doing this.

Even today , there are still a lot of fakes out there and they have aged with time , there is also the questionable items as well, sometimes we need a time machine to go back and check things for ourselves, but most of the time we can only go with collectors advise and knowledge , and I know from experience that we don't want to listen as our heart tells us that the pieces we have are right, they have got provanance and come from a reputable dealer , but then we have to listen and ask why these items may be fake, ask the person who is telling you they are not right to explain why and show you the difference etc so you can learn and get your money back.

It's a minefield Butch and we spend our hard earned cash and there is always someone out there ready to take it , by any means . :thumbsup:

Christopher Ailsby
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Christopher Ailsby » Wed Dec 27, 2017 8:37 pm

Butch, if I maybe so bold as to inter seed. I have had the pleasure of knowing you for many years in many forums, from that first one through stirmpanzer. You have some wonderful pieces extremely well put together. I must say I do not have a clue were cloth is concerened and have always admitted as such. What Andy has said is extremely well spocken. He was terribly misused by some "GENTLEMEN" I COULD SAY I HAD THE PLEASURE OF MEETING THE MASTERMIND MANY YEARS AGO IN lOUTH Lincolnshire. I can only say the "Treaures" he unearthed were wonderful - titled beer mugs - as a starter. May I say more? This is how this wonderful Forum, was started as a safeguard against such as these. Thus a great thank you to "Lovejoy" Dave. Thought I had that title but must bow to "Higher authority". Andy who stood up to this and thank the things above wone. So it is important that all members are part of a club, not a forum, a club of same thinking people. People who want to share and give interest. No one wants to trash anothers collection or endevourse. Ian is a very special guy, he is only using his knowledge to help you. To share, so we all can learn. This Club Forum dose not have room for decsentors, "Billy Big Bollocks". Every day I look at the Club - forum and read great threads. Things I would not have known, thank you Pablo.

SO BUTCK please be not affended, but just another who will be adding more to my morning read.

Thank you for reading an "Old Man's" rambilings,

My very best wishes

Christopher

The Devils Bank
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby The Devils Bank » Fri Dec 29, 2017 4:18 pm

Very well said Christopher, as long as we can learn, we will continue to enjoy the fine collections of the forum members here.

It is a mine field now, that's the sad side.

But, there still is that exciting part of collecting, that keeps us going. :thumbsup:

That's the "Learning" part.

Stormtrooper
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Stormtrooper » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:31 pm

No Offence taken. I am happy to be associated with all of you ,being brought together by something that we enjoy. Not to mention the knowledge contained here. All the Best to all of you :grin:

Now, as I promised, though it was some time ago. "Sorry for the Delay" Here is a couple of close-up of my Tabs and a couple of things that I have picked up. Enjoy! Thank You all, Butch
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Stormtrooper
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Stormtrooper » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:37 pm

The SS Police patch does have 6 numbers, The first number is faint and right almost on top of the small "o" in the abbreviation for number "No". Butch

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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Dave_Holden » Wed Jan 10, 2018 6:35 am

Happy New Year Butch!!

I dabble in cloth only but here is my ten pence Worth:

The SS Police Runes look spot on mate, as do the Chevrons :thumbsup:

The backing on the last 2 pictures - (I take it the SS Runes and Rank Pips?), I have not seen backing as light as this on any tabs apart from very early SA.

As I said I only dabble in cloth, but thought I would add to this thread as I am Learning even after 30 years :thumbsup:

Cheers Dave.

Stormtrooper
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Stormtrooper » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:59 am

The Dealer, "a Friend of mine" also had a set of Police runes in Black. The only Black ones that I had ever seen was in a Photo of a Panzer guy that had some Black runes on his wrapper jacket. They were nice but I went with this one. It's unissued and does have the label on the Back. Thanks for your comment. As my fellow forum members will tell you, I know very little about Cloth too but, I'm learning. All the Best, Butch

Ian Hulley
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Re: My Small collection of SS Stuff

Postby Ian Hulley » Tue Jan 30, 2018 11:50 am

Stormtrooper wrote: It's unissued and does have the label on the Back.


Butch, please compare the font of the serial numbers on the original labels on the Alte Kampfe chevrons to the label on the SS membership runes .... I also created a reference thread on the labels.

http://www.broadswordmilitary.com/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=2544

The usual letter code for these members runes is a 'C' as they are the same basic item as a hand-embroidered bullion collar tab. It is not uncommon for fake labels to be added to original items ... something I feel may have happened here. Just my honest opinion and with the greatest of respect. I feel I wouldn't be doing my job here if I didn't point this out to you.

Ian

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